Atheos Dialogue: Doubt and Burn

My belief is based on the truth. The truth of God as stated in the Bible.

Select an ideal response for:

I believe XYZ because the Bible says so.

The Bible can't be trusted.

What makes you so sure the Bible is trustworthy?

ABC (some other religious document) says something else.

There are so many reasons to doubt the Bible. What is the Bible?

Select an ideal response for:

It is the book written by God.

It is actually a collection of many books by many different authors. There are even many different collections of books, called canons.

It's not a 'book'.

God doesn't even exist.

How do you know that?

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Whatever, God inspired all those people who did that, so God is the real author.

We can't know that these people were inspired.

We can't verify that that is what occurred, or even that God exists.

That is a big claim. How do you know God exists?

God doesn't even exist.

Select an ideal response for:

The Bible makes it clear that God exists & that He wrote it.

Isn't that circular reasoning? One can't just rely on the Bible to prove God's existence.

But there's no such thing as 'the Bible'.

You trust the Bible as it is God's Word & you know God exists because the Bible says so. How isn't that circular reasoning?

But the Bible can't be trusted!

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There is other proof of God's existence.

Actually, there isn't.

No, the Bible is your only 'proof'.

If all of those instances could be explained in some way, would you still believe in the God?

Even if that is true, there are still numerous challenges to accepting the Bible as reliable.

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Like what?

We don't have the originals anymore.

No original texts. Dodgy transmission. Numerous proven manuscript variants.

For one, there are many different manuscripts, with many variant readings.

Ummm…

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Most of those variants don't matter.

Some of them do matter a great deal, like ABC & XYZ.

The variants make it clear that we should doubt which is the correct version.

Of course variants matter!

Different versions result in completely different doctrines.

Select an ideal response for:

What do you mean?

Scholars often doubt the authors of the various books & the books are filled with contradictions.

The books are filled with contradictions.

We simply don't know who wrote what.

Moses' Torah speaks of his death, the Gospels are anonymous & many books are known to be forgeries. They also contradict each other.

Select an ideal response for:

Well God wrote it all… & there are no contradictions.

The Biblical books contain many contradictions with history, with science, with each other & even within themselves.

But we already agreed that we can't assume that God did it or that God exists.

I realize this is not popular, but contradictions in the Bible are very real. Let's define what 'contradiction' means, shall we?

The Bible has many contradictions.

Select an ideal response for:

I don't believe that.

It's true. Here's one…

The experts already acknowledge this.

Specialist scholars admit to this. It also seems unlikely that the God of the Bible could condone atrocities, while being 'loving'.

This is all part of mainstream Biblical criticism. It also doesn't seem like a loving & just God could condone rape & genocide.

Select an ideal response for:

He doesn't.

Yes he does. All the time.

Yes he does. All the time. See ABC & XYZ, and…

For one example, see the slaughter of the Canaanites in Deuteronomy 7 & 20.

For one example, see the slaughter of the Midianites in Numbers 31.

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That's the Old Testament.

It's still your God, commanding & condemning behavior that you are clearly uncomfortable with. That's all just the start.

The New Testament doesn't do away with the Old!

This is not about Old Testament laws, but about your God's character. And we're only scratching the surface.

These are still not the actions of a loving God.

Select an ideal response for:

There's more?

Yeah, way too many to raise.

Yes, one of these completely nullifies your position.

There are problems with translation, religious leader/authority interpretation & that old chestnut…

One problem causes much strife for us non-believers, but also for you & your fellow Christians.

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What problem is that?

The old Christian past-time of 'pick & choose'.

Knowing which bits of the Bible are literal & which aren't.

Knowing which bits of the Bible should be directly applied to your life.

Not even knowing that God exists.

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But we all struggle with that one.

Christians ought to be more consistent.

Yes, there is much schism in the Christian faith. And that just proves the point. There are many, many reasons to doubt the Bible.

That doesn't make it okay.

That this issue alone causes such division within the Christian faith & without, proves the point—the Bible is highly problematic.

Select an ideal response for:

I suppose so. That was an interesting talk.

To find more problems with the Bible, I suggest you read it.

We haven't even covered the problematic claims of miracles. I recommend Lataster's book…

Thank you for your time. I wish you well in researching these issues.

Yes & there is also the ABC & the XYZ & the…