Atheos Just a Bang?

Something doesn't come from nothing. Therefore, God.

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1. Everything that exists has a cause. 2. The universe exists. 3. The universe has a cause. 4. 'God' is the cause.

If (1) is true & God is necessary (uncaused), then doesn't it follow that God doesn't exist?

Why couldn't one just replace the word 'God' with 'chance' in your argument? What justifies the jump to a deity?

Is it really the universe that exists, or just the things it's comprised of? Isn't 'universe' the set of all things & not itself a thing?

The universe is self-caused. There's no need for a creator deity to explain it.

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An absolute, objective reality must be sustained by an absolute, objective mind.

Doesn't 'absolute, objective reality' mean reality existing independently of minds?

If you believe that reality is just God's dream, should I really be surprised you don't value evidence?

I'm wondering how fallible human beings could ever be so sure on something like that.

Can you explain in greater detail why you say that?

An absolute, objective reality would lack the subjective interpretations of a limited mind.

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God always existed.

How do you know that?

Why couldn't the universe have always existed?

Hasn't the universe always existed?

You've convinced me. Shall I convert now?

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It is more likely that God did it than did not do it.

You're wrong, more likely than not.

Why? How can other alternatives be ruled out?

How can one reliably determine the probability of creation without comprehending what that concept entails or how it works?

On what basis? Is there anything to base your delusional bet upon?

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God is the best explanation for why anything in the world exists.

A God is no explanation for anything in the world; it's a cop-out.

How did you manage to determine that conclusively? Couldn't multiple Gods have created the universe? Why don't you believe that?

Others don't find God a good explanation at all. Isn't God basically an extra-dimensional entity we could never hope to understand?

Then what is God’s reason for putting you on Earth?

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How else can we explain the complexity of the universe?

Even if we had no clue whatsoever about the nature of the universe, would that truly justify the assumption that a God must exist?

Yes, it is complex. I'm just wondering if it really make sense to expect humans with limited understanding to have it fully figured out.

It is too complex to explain, so why should we try?

Through science.

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If God doesn't exist, then where did all the order in nature come from?

Evolution.

Why only focus on the order? Isn't nature also quite chaotic & disorderly in many respects?

Are you kidding? Nature is utterly chaotic!

What makes you sure that stability & balance can't emerge naturally, free of intentional design?

What makes you think that order had to come from somewhere?

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It is easier to believe that God created something out of nothing than it is to believe that nothing created something out of nothing.

You can't claim to know that someone made something from nothing, not that nothing made something from nothing, no?

Why couldn't something have always existed?

Ease of belief has no bearing on reality. Why would something easier to believe make it more likely to be true?

I don't see a difference at the quantum level. How can you know what you don't know?

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Nothing came before the Big Bang; therefore God caused the Big Bang.

There is no way for you to know that, so why make such a claim?

I prefer to believe it was Thor. Isn't he a cooler God than yours?

Not even most scientists would claim to know existence began at a Big Bang. How have you come to be so sure?

What if we've misinterpreted the evidence for the Big Bang & such an event never even happened? Aren't you jumping to conclusions?

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Omnipotence is necessary to create the universe.

Impotence is necessary to create religion.

Were you there? [in Ken Ham voice]

Wouldn't one need to know the details of the universe's origins before one could know anything about the necessary conditions?

Then, I'm glad the inter-dimensional aliens who created the universe were omnipotent!

Do we really have a good enough understanding of the universe to make claims like that? Isn't it better to say, 'I don't know'?

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Our world is far too beautiful to be an accident.

The world is too horrible (natural disasters) & ugly (cancer) in many ways to be a 'supreme creation.'

Don't humans tend to see patterns emerge naturally from chaos all the time? I'm wondering how your belief is different.

It's also quite ugly. Is that equally by divine design?

What do you mean by 'accident'?

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Scientists cannot explain something coming from nothing. Everything that is must have come from something & that something is God.

You can't assign a quality (like being unproductive) to 'nothing.'

Nothing comes from nothing. Something most definitely comes from something, but that something isn't a God.

Are you aware that you’ve just committed the 'God of the gaps' fallacy?

Can you cite an instance when someone has actually observed something coming from nothing?

Why do you feel the universe requires an external cause but are okay with God himself being uncaused?

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Something cannot come from nothing.

Much like your argument, right?

Isn't that because nothing, by definition, could not exist?

Does that rule apply to deities as well? If 'No', why not?

Then how did that thought come from inside your head?

Something comes from scientific investigation. Nothing comes from inferential guesswork.

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Something can't come from nothing.

Within nothing there is always something & something is enough to rule out nothing... right?

It sounds like you've already decided that there was a moment of 'creation.' How can you be sure of that?

How else would you describe that statement? Clearly, something can come from that empty head of yours.

Not true, physicist Lawrence Krauss argues that nothing is unstable & must eventually produce something.

What do you mean by 'nothing'? Has anyone ever observed nothing?

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The universe couldn't have come from nothing.

The understanding of our universe is lacking in your epistemic base.

What evidence is there for that claim?

Isn't the universe too infinite, wonderful & impossible to explain in such causal terms as these?

Why is this incorrect? For example, Physicist Victor Stenger argued that it could have always existed.

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The universe didn’t always exist because of the Big Bang. Therefore God was the first cause.

Our universe came into being as a result of the Big Bang & we don’t know everything about how & why. Therefore... science!

Is it justifiable to assume that the Big Bang was the beginning of the universe? Do we really understand things well enough to assume that?

This person just solved the creation of the universe. Can someone please give them a Nobel Prize?

How do you know God caused the Big Bang?

Why couldn't Zeus or Isis have caused the Big Bang?

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The universe must have begun somehow. Who created it, if not God?

Are you incapable of saying 'I don't know.'?

Doesn’t it make more sense just to say 'We’re not sure' when we don’t know something?

Why must we attribute a 'who' to the creation of the universe?

The universe started with the Big Bang.

Could it have been Zeus, or some other creator deity?

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The universe requires an unmoved mover.

Don't you base that claim on the laws of causality? And don't we only know that those laws apply WITHIN the universe?

The universe is perpetual motion, moving with the rythym of the cosmos.

Isn't your logic that everything has a cause? Why doesn't that logic apply to this 'unmoved mover?'

May I ask why you feel confident to speak so authoritatively about the nature of universes?

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Universe requires something outside itself.

Why?

I don't claim to know what I don't know & I don't know what the universe requires. Oh & neither do you.

A belief in the supernatural similarly requires belief in something outside itself.

What manner of logical witchcraft is this?

By that logic, wouldn’t that thing require something outside itself & so on, ad infinitum?

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Why is the universe here?

Deep question. It'd be great if people understood this. Do you think you have an answer to that question?

Maybe there is no 'why,' maybe it just is here.

That is what we seek to understand, not what we claim to know.

Why does this even matter to you?

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Why is there something rather than nothing?

I don't know the answer to that. Further, I can't imagine how anyone possibly could; can you?

Many people seem to think their religion has found the answer to that question. I wonder how we could tell who's correct.

Because something is much more fun?!

The world is just a figment of our imagination. Nothing exists.