Atheos I'd Kill Otherwise

People can only be good if they believe in a God or Gods.

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Abortion is wrong. If there was no God then nothing would be wrong. But abortion is wrong, therefore God exists.

So, we know God exists because abortion is wrong & we know abortion is wrong because God says so? Isn't that viciously circular?

Your illogical epistemic foundation is showing.

Abortion isn’t wrong; it’s totally okay!

Some atheists feel, like you, that abortion is immoral. Doesn't that suggest that moral convictions needn't have anything to do with Gods?

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Animals are given morality from God in order to know how to care for their young & how to cooperate with each other.

What purpose would God have to promote animal well-being?

Could these described traits just be purely survival instincts?

Animals aren't smart enough to understand the concept of morality.

When does God plan on giving that to humans?

Ughh... another creationist.

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Atheists are immoral. For example, they think abortion is totally okay.

Some atheists feel that abortion is immoral. Doesn't that suggest that moral convictions needn't have anything to do with God beliefs?

In 'The Moral Landscape,' Sam Harris showed that science can determine morality. Didn't you read that?

Other than lacking God-beliefs, atheists differ widely in their other convictions. What makes you think stereotypes like that are justified?

If atheists are immoral, why are prison populations so heavily theistic? Why are most terrorists motivated by religious belief?

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As Mahatma Gandhi once said, 'But for my faith in God, I should have been a raving maniac.'

If God's the only thing keeping you in check, shouldn't you seek psychological counseling?

Would you say that all—or even many—atheists are raving maniacs?

That's funny, because most atheists I know are perfectly capable of controlling themselves.

I'm not saying false beliefs can't produce positive results. But their incongruity with reality makes them problematic or dangerous.

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Divine justice definitively proves my God is a living God.

If the justice you speak of is divine, then I want no part of such a cruel & sadistic deity.

If that's true, wouldn't the suffering of millions demonstrate that your God cares little for justice?

I've heard people who believe in [insert different God name] say something very similar. How confident are you that you're correct?

What do you mean by 'divine justice?' What would be an example of divine justice?

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God is necessary as the judge of morality.

You judge people all the time for their moral actions. God is clearly not the only judge, right?

What makes you think moral questions have absolute, objective answers at all?

Don’t you yourself judge the morality of your actions & those of others every day, without any help from a deity?

If you believe morality is absolute & 'built into' the universe, what need is there for a 'judge?'

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God is necessary as the source of objective morality.

That's not true. Why can't science determine human values?

Hasn't God proven Himself to be immoral in the first place by causing suffering?

If you did not have your religion, would you act different?

What makes you so sure that objective (or absolute) morality is even a real phenomenon?

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Humans are habitually moral, which can only be explained through God.

Are you kidding? Humans are the only immoral living things we know of.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

You seem to be habitually incorrect in your assertions.

How does the existence of a deity ground morality? Doesn't morality have entirely to do with relationships among people?

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I was a truly horrible person—then I found God—now I’m good. God exists.

I see that your beliefs changed & then your actions changed. But couldn't that have happened even if your beliefs were false?

You found logic & rationality, but didn't recognize that you were capable of that, so you mistakenly attributed it to divine revelation.

Wasn't it you who altered your attitude? Isn't it you who's toeing the line, even now?

You have a sense of guilt & a conscience. What did a God have to do with your shift?

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If God doesn't exist, there's no cosmic justice.

Why would one expect there to be 'cosmic justice' in the first place?

If God alone decides this 'cosmic justice,' isn't that really a 'cosmic dictatorship?'

I'm not sure what you mean by 'cosmic justice.' What would that look like & what reason do we have to believe it exists?

What about the 'karma' system? Without any need for a God, individuals are rewarded or punished for their behavior.

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If God told me to kill someone—I would.

Well then, I sure hope God has a better moral character than you do.

Why?

How would you know that it was your God specifically speaking with you?

So... have you met my friend Bobby?

*backs away slowly*

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If I abandon my faith I’ll become a bad person.

If pretending to know what you don't know is the only thing keeping you from being bad, you already are.

Do you really act morally only because you believe in a deity?

It sounds like you're saying people can only be good if they believe in a God, specifically, yours.

So... at your core you're a bad person?

I'm not of faith, yet I'm not a bad person.

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If I stop believing in God, I’ll give way to my homosexual urges.

If you do that, you may find yourself happier in life. Why not embrace these urges?

Faggot.

Isn’t your belief that homosexuality is immoral rooted entirely in dogmatic religious teachings?

Sorry. I'm just not understanding why giving into homosexual urges would offend a God. Would you explain this to me?

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If people stopped believing in God, then nothing would stop them from running amok & killing each other.

If there were no religion, then we wouldn't have anything to kill each other over.

How many atheists have you seen running amok on wild killing sprees?

Isn’t history full of examples of theists (even of the same religion) hurting & killing one another?

Is your hypothesis testable in some way? Perhaps we could look at some large, secular societies.

I'm an atheist. Are you afraid I'm going to start rioting & killing people?

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Jehovah must have existed because there is morality. Morality exists, therefore Jesus is a living God.

Science can determine human values & morals. Are you not familiar with Sam Harris’ work?

Morality is only evidenced through behavior. Why not suppose that it’s just an inherent trait of humans as a social species?

Don't you see that morality isn't determined by a God? It is determined by human well-being & flourishing.

Before Jehovah existed, did the people know right from wrong?

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Morals only exist because a God exists.

Why is there a necessary relationship between a God & morality?

Isn't 'morality' just a way we describe human behavior? Are morals truly 'real' things that exist?

Why, then, do the majority of atheists behave morally & expect the same of others?

Morality seems to be a feature of human behavior. Why not look for an explanation in the natural world, where human behavior occurs?

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My religion does not condone rape.

You shouldn't rape anyone. You'd go to jail.

Have people in your religion ever been raped?

Do secular values condone rape? If you could keep your values on your own, would you still need your religion?

Your religion raped the world.

That's good to hear. I'm still not sure why you believe in your deity, though.

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My religion & faith produce hospitals, charities & innumerable other communal benefits. Without faith we’d be savages.

It's the humanist elements of religions that produce those effects. What has faith got to do with it?

Why is faith a social cure for savagery?

Tell me more how faith keeps you from becoming a 'savage'.

Haven't religions also produced horrible institutions like the Inquisition?

Don't many mostly secular societies provide those same benefits without devolving into savagery?

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Only God-fearing people have humility.

What would a person who doesn't believe in God have to do to demonstrate she had humility?

How do you know that?

They have humility because they know that what they believe is idiotic.

Not true at all: I'm living proof & proud of it!

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Religion gives a framework for how to treat others.

So does humanism. Why chose religion over humanism?

Would you really act immorally if you didn't believe a God had commanded you to treat others decently?

You don't need religion, look to reason.

Does that framework form the shape of a guillotine?

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Religion helps me teach my children morals.

Religion isn't a good justification to have morals.

If you didn't 'know' about your God, what do you think would be different about the way you raise your children?

Do you teach them all the violence, rape, incest & cold-hearted slaughter found in holy scriptures too?

If your children were raised in a culture with a completely different God belief, would they automatically be horrible people?

How about simple right & wrong as it pertains to the well-being of conscious creatures?

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The Crusaders & those in the Inquisition were wrong to do what they did, but their cause was just.

Just so I know, who can I kill & still be just?

I hope you don't actually mean that. Make love, not war.

When is killing someone 'just?' Are there exceptions to 'Thou shalt not kill?'

Yeah. Just stupid.

Would you say that these people still made it to heaven because they believed?

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There can be no morality without a God. But there is morality; therefore God exists.

If there is a God-imposed, absolute morality, why do so many people disagree about what is moral?

If you had only read Sam Harris’ A Moral Landscape, you would know that is incorrect.

How can you be so sure that morality is really absolute in that way?

Why can't we all just get along?

Morality isn't determined by a God. Doesn't it make more sense that it's determined by human well-being & flourishing?

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Without a God, we couldn’t be held morally accountable.

Uh, I thought that was what the legal system was for...

What do you see that suggests we're in fact held morally accountable in that way?

Why is an absolute, objective morality so important? Don't people hold each other accountable?

Everyone is accountable for their actions. One can't escape that, regardless of the existence of a God.

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Without religion the world would be corrupt & immoral.

Isn't religion one of the main reasons humans go to war?

If you were to examine statistics that showed the opposite results, would you change your position?

Scandinavia: Lowest religiosity & lowest corruption rates. Ghana & Nigeria: Highest religiosity & highest corruption rates. Please explain.

I argue that the cause behind corruption & immorality is religion itself.