Atheos Get a Load of This Part 2

Life, the universe, & everything else.

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I used to think like you. I’m going to pray for you.

I'd be curious to know what it was that changed your mind about the question of theism.

What aspects of my reasoning do you find flawed or unjustified?

What makes you so sure prayer is a worthwhile pursuit?

You mean you’re going to talk to yourself for me?

Why should you talking to yourself will change my mind?

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I’m afraid of atheists.

I'm more afraid of theists. You're more likely to be killed by a theist than a nonbeliever, right?

You should be. We're sodomites & blasphemers. But boy, do we throw great parties!

You should always face your fears. If you step out of your box, you will find that there isn't anything to be afraid of.

What’s frightening about people who formulate their beliefs on the basis of evidence?

You must have a reason to be afraid of atheists. Please elaborate.

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It makes sense as the best logical explanation.

No, it really doesn't. What logic are you referring to?

Unless you're sure, shouldn't you just accept it as an unknown? Why jump to a theistic conclusion?

Hardly! There is no logic in that explanation.

Why do you think the majority of your fellow humans disagree with you about that explanation?

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It’s better if God existed than if he did not.

How would we measure that if we could not compare each scenario?

How would things be worse if your God didn't exist?

I disagree, there is nothing that you have to show that could convince me of that.

I disagree, the untold suffering of millions could have been averted absent the belief in a God.

How is the existance of a spiteful, jealous & mass-murdering God a good thing?

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Jesus Christ is who he says he is, or he's the biggest con-man history has ever known. If Christianity were true, would you believe?

Mohammad is either who he says he is, or he is the biggest con-man history has ever known. If Islam were true, would you believe?

If it were I would, but it's not so I don't.

What do you mean by Christianity? What aspect of Christianity & how would I know that aspect is true?

Then put your money on him being the biggest con-man in history.

If Christianity were untrue, which happens to be the case, would you disbelieve?

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Just because I grew up in my religion, that doesn't mean I was indoctrinated into it.

Why do you think it is that the majority of believers subscribe to the faith in which they were raised?

OK, then. What convinced you that your religion's dogma is actually true?

Well, you believe IN the DOCTRINE of your religion, right? Sounds like indoctrination to me...

Ah, but isn't that exactly what someone who'd been indoctrinated would say?

Who cares whether you were indoctrinated or not? All I care about is whether it's true!

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Just look at my daughter. That miracle proves God exists.

Your daughter isn't that cute.

Just look at my daughter: She proves that biology exists & that she has excellent genes.

What about people whose daughters don't survive pregnancy? Does that still prove God?

If one's daughter were stillborn would that prove God’s existence? What if one's daughter were born with a disease that crippled her?

How does that have anything to do with anything?

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My relationships are structured around religion.

That's also true for people whose beliefs contradict your own. Doesn't that show this to be a bad reason to believe religious claims?

Does that structure get in the way of the honest self-reflection of your beliefs?

That's unfortunate. Escaping religion will be far more painful for you since it'll mean losing those relationships as well, no?

Relationships should be built upon mutual interests & genuine camaraderie, don't you think?

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My religion could simply not have been invented. It must have come directly from God.

The archetypes found in your religion already existed. Could someone have easily copied them down to sound profound?

What about other people’s religions? Could those have been invented?

Your religion was invented to control people.

The written record created by humans is subject to human error & delusion. It may seem ordained by a God, but it isn't.

How are you so certain of this?

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Religion is a handy reference guide to life.

Don't different religions make different, often contradictory assertions, though? How useful is a guidebook whose claims can't be verified?

Why should one expect life to come with some kind of handy guidebook?

Sure, it'd be nice to be given a set of simple rules to follow. But does it make sense to sacrifice truth & reliability for convenience?

It's a handy guide to living a lie.

Promoting well-being is all that matters. You don't need religion.

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Scientists have known for a long time that God exists—they’re just suppressing the information.

What would compel them to lie about God's existence?

How could you possibly know this?

Sure, because withholding such evidence that would win a Nobel Prize is what most scientists seek to do?

What would that information look like?

It is clear you insist on developing a conspiracy theory around the existence of God, if you only understood the meaning of science.

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The foundations of our culture are based on religion.

The foundations of our society are built on greed, power & control of others.

Really? Are you certain it's our culture that you're referring to?

No they are not, they are based on humanitarianism.

Even if that were true, what's the relationship between culture & truth?

How does that increase the likelihood that the claims of religion are true?

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The mind & brain are separate like the body & soul. This is because our souls go to heaven.

Is there no reason to believe that those are separate entities? They are synonymous terms.

So, your evidence is that souls go to heaven? How is it that you know that?

Isn't the mind contained within the brain? Your logic is faulty.

I think I need you to define what you mean by those terms—specifically 'mind' & 'soul'—in order to understand what you're saying.

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The universe is God. They are identical.

Why is that a good thing?

Hmm. I accept that the universe exists. But it still seems like we aren't actually in agreement about reality.

No they are not, the universe is real, tangible & scientifically measurable.

I thought God created us in His image. Are you saying the universe is human-shaped, or that I'm universe-shaped?

What do you mean by 'God'?

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Then how do you explain the existence of souls?

I only try to explain things I have reason to believe exists.

Can you explain what you mean by 'souls?'

I'm not confident that souls exists, but you appear to be. Let's unpack that.

There is no reason to believe such a thing exists. What more is there to explain?

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There just has to be something greater than me.

Why? Also, what do you mean by 'greater'?

All one can truly know is oneself. There is nothing greater.

There is an enormous, complex universe all around us. Might that qualify as 'something greater'?

No, there doesn't.

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We know God exists because He pursues us. He is constantly initiating & seeking for us to come to Him.

My friend said the same thing about the CIA. He's now in a home for people suffering from mental disorders.

Wouldn't it be more obvious if He put whirling globes in the air telling us to believe in him?

If God wants us to know Him, why does He make it impossible to do so using science, our most reliable tool for learning about reality?

In what ways do you perceive God pursuing you? How could one differentiate that from an illusion?

That isn't a God; that is the religious right.

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We may ignore, but we can nowhere evade the presence of God. The world is crowded with Him. He walks everywhere incognito.' —C.S. Lewis

It's possible that there's much about reality we cannot perceive. But does that justify assuming that there must be such invisible things?

How convenient.

Wouldn't one need evidence for such a claim before feeling confident of its truth?

How could He both walk everywhere incognito & be ever-present?

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Why do you care about this so much? Why are you so outspoken, sticking your nose in everyone’s business?

Because everyone's business affects my own & I don't want to lose my business to delusional masses.

I care because, if it were me unknowingly holding unjustified beliefs, I would hope my peers would help me examine them objectively, too.

I want a world that is free from the shackles of religion.

Is it me who's sticking my nose in your business, or you people sticking your noses in mine?

I care about this because the faith beliefs of others have an impact on my life.

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You don’t believe in God because you’re angry.

I'm not even remotely angry. Why do you think I'm angry?

I'm not angry; I'm just happy to know the truth. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

Would an angry person be speaking with believers to better understand truth?

Damn right I'm angry. You people & your delusions have hurt people & made it nearly impossible to solve shared problems. Can't you see that?

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You have to believe first, then you'll understand.

Believe what? How can one know what one should initially lend one's beliefs to?

How can I come to believe by believing? Understand without understanding? How does this make sense?

Jump in front of that train first, then ask what will happen.

So should one believe [insert a different faith] in order to understand it?

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You need only believe & you’ll understand. Sincerely open your heart to God & He will answer.

Have you done the same for [insert different faith here]? Why not?

If you try hard enough you can convince yourself to believe anything.

You say that I'll be convinced if I only believe. But how can I believe before I am convinced?

Why would I want to participate in your delusions?

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You were made by God & for God & until you understand that, life will never make sense.' —Rick Warren

Your life doesn't make sense either.

Why would one assume life should be inherently straighforward or purposeful?

Couldn't the opposite be said? 'You weren't made by God & until you understand that, you'll falsely believe that life makes sense'?

You are made of star stuff & if you could understand that you'd give up trying to make sense of life.

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You're just mad at God.

Couldn’t someone say the same thing about your rejection of Thor? ('You’re just mad at Thor.')

Yes, I am mad at God. He could stop cancer & suffering but he chooses not to.

I’m no more mad at God than I am mad at werewolves.

Wouldn't a person need to first believe the God exists before she could be mad at it?

How can I me mad at a being that I reject?