Atheos Dialogue: Scientology is True

L. Ron Hubbard speaks truth!

Select an ideal response for:

A personality test at a Dianetics Center showed me that I had no real reason to be depressed & not be happy.

That's interesting. Please go on.

Hmm. I see. Please continue.

Fascinating stuff. Are you by chance taking any medications now?

Hurry up & cut to the chase.

Select an ideal response for:

The man who conducted the test invited me to do the Dianetics Seminar, which really started making me happier.

To summarize then, your addictive behavior decreased after taking several lessons on Scientology?

Just so I understand this correctly, you believe after attending a Dianetics Seminar your happiness improved?

From my understanding & correct me if I'm mistaken, but you believe someone untrained in psychology helped improve your condition?

So, to recap, you believe your happiness increased after attending a seminar on Dianetics?

Select an ideal response for:

Yes. My attitude toward life changed for the better. I was offered other Scientology services & found they also helped me in everyday life.

Did you ever engage other services like a mosque, church, or a doctor?

I find it interesting that you didn't seek out a doctor or other religious institution for help. Could that indicate a bias of some sort?

Did you seek out services or solutions from other providers, like a church, synagogue, mosque, or health care provider?

I think you may have a bias, since you did not seek out other alternatives besides Scientology. What do you think?

Select an ideal response for:

I definitely, without question, know that Dianetics & Scientology has helped me.

Wow. Would you say you strongly believe this is the case, or you know it?

I think you're mis-applying that term. Can a person really know much of anything?

Interesting. Do you believe it or do you know it?

How can a fallible person ever claim to know something for certain?!

Select an ideal response for:

Scientology isn't 'believed' like other religions ask or tell followers to believe in something. That isn't the case with Scientology.

What do you mean?

Can you elaborate a bit more please?

What you talkin' about, Willis?

I have no clue what you're telling me here.

Select an ideal response for:

My 'belief' (makes finger quotes) is based on my improved well-being after learning things from Dianetics & Scientology.

If you can't measure something, it has to be untrue.

Do you have a means to measure the improvement to which you attribute to Dianetics & Scientology?

Surely you have a measuring stick of some kind to track your progress?

By what method have you determined that your well-being has improved?

Select an ideal response for:

As L. Ron Hubbard said, 'Each & every student must determine for himself whether or not the instructor's statements are true.'

So each person must evaluate whether or not their beliefs are true. Do I have that right?

I'm not following you. You really need to explain this better to me.

If I can summarize: Only the person presented with a claim can verify it to be true—did I say that properly?

So only people who've studied Scientology or Dianetics for more than ten years can determine if what they experience is true or not, yes?

Select an ideal response for:

Yes. Scientology (& Dianetics) are meant for USE, not for belief. We're encouraged to examine & choose principles that benefit us & others.

Ever seen a magician perform? They take advantage of human perception. What makes you think this method can be relied upon?

You do realize that human perception is extremely unreliable, right?

Perception can be a tricky thing—how can a person be sure what they perceive is correct?

How does a person know that their perception accurately reflects reality?

Select an ideal response for:

I know it helped because I'm happier, my IQ improved, I'm more comfortable & smile more. I've influenced others in a similar manner.

How do you know you weren't just inhaling laughing gas or ingested a hallucinogen?

How would one figure out Scientology & Dianetics were causally responsible?

Could you have experienced similar improvements through other methods? Or could these changes only have occurred via Scientology?

I smile after working out at the gym. That doesn't mean I'm going to start worshipping my trainer.

Select an ideal response for:

This is a tangible change & not just because some 'belief' exists in my mind.

Do you place any weight on the importance of being able to measure your progress?

It's clear you require evidence to support your beliefs then, is that correct?

I'd say you're evidence-based when it comes to determining what's true, yes?

How important is evidence to you when it comes to determining what's true?

Select an ideal response for:

I'm more results-based than evidence-based because evidence may not apply to me, while personal results tell me something is true.

What do you mean that evidence doesn't apply to you?

Why on Earth would you put so much faith into personal results & over scientific evidence no less?!

Hitler was results-based as well & look where that got us.

Can you think of a reason why someone would bypass evidence & rely on personal experience instead?

Select an ideal response for:

I give more weight to personal results because evidence is someone else's observation given to you, while a result is personal.

I really doubt you've had a time where personal results were more reliable than peer-reviewed, scientific evidence.

Why do you call yourself a 'Scientologist' if you favor untrustworthy, personal results over real evidence?

Can you recall a time when your personal experience superseded actual evidence?

Do you have a good example of a time when you were presented evidence, but your results-based personal experience superseded that evidence?

Select an ideal response for:

The Church tells you to never go to sleep without resolving a problem with your spouse. We've done this & always resolved it.

If a Mormon husband had the same philosophy with his three wives, wouldn't that mean Scientology was doomed?

Is that official Church doctrine only? I mean, couldn't others not beholden to Scientology have discovered that?

Thanks for sharing. Isn't that simply good advice, regardless of Church affiliation?

Everyone does that, including atheist couples. Is that your best example?

Select an ideal response for:

I have confidence in Founder L. Ron Hubbard. LRH sacrificed his life to impart what he learned from various sources & direct observation.

Why should LRH's opinion be privileged over that of other figures?

But LRH was a human being, capable of making mistakes. Do you really think LRH was infallible?

What is it about LRH that makes you believe he discovered a way to know the world in a way that can be relied upon?

Catholics believe the Pope is infallible, too.

Select an ideal response for:

The best way to learn Scientology is straight from LRH or you're subject to other people's interpretations instead of your own.

It seems like you're dodging my question. Am I making you uncomfortable?

That didn't really answer my question. Why should someone give more weight to LRH's guidance than anyone else's?

This will go better if you just answer the questions I'm asking.

I'm not sure that answered my query. Why should a person assign high confidence values to LRH's teachings?

Select an ideal response for:

Getting advice from the Source is more pure. We have the amazing benefit of recorded LRH teachings, a source of envy from other religions.

Are you saying that you have more confidence in LRH than, say, the Mormon Joseph Smith, because there are recordings?

Does the fact there are recordings of LRH lend more credence than what Joseph Smith is reported to have said/done for Mormonism?

Does a video of LRH give you more confidence than an audio recording that what he is saying is true?

Just because someone made a claim 30+ years ago & it happened to be recorded doesn't make it true!

Select an ideal response for:

Yes. Alterations are common, but we have recordings directly from the Source so there's no faking. Recordings are indispensible.

If one who believes in the claims of Scientology was mistaken, how could one go about discovering that?

If Scientology was wrong, how could this massive mistake be perpetuated to so many seemingly rational people?

Let's say you're wrong. How would you explain that to someone so they don't make the same error?

If someone who followed the teachings of LRH was mistaken in some way, how might they go about uncovering this?

Select an ideal response for:

If someone could show me that the Source recordings of LRH were forgeries, made up, that could be a way...

Nice. Thanks. How many audio engineers would it take before you would accept their analysis that LRH's recordings were fake?

Thanks. If the camera zoomed out & you saw someone was pointing a rifle at LRH's head, how would that affect your confidence?

Very good. If the best audio-video engineers in the world reported the Source recordings were not from LRH, would you accept it?

What are some other ways?

Select an ideal response for:

(long pause) I don't think I could ever accept such a claim...

What if LRH himself, on a recording, said his recordings weren't true?

What evidence would you accept to conclude that the Source recordings of LRH weren't true?

Fabricating recordings of someone, especially with the goal of controlling people, isn't all that far-fetched, right?

Could there ever be anything you would accept to explain that the LRH Source recordings were fabricated?

Select an ideal response for:

(really long pause) No. I guess it would take something other than that...

Did LRH have any opinions on the health aspects around the social custom of shaking hands?

Thanks for your time. I really appreciate it.

I enjoyed the discussion. Thank you for chatting with me.

That was a fun talk. Too bad we didn't record it & make a 'Source' (makes finger quotes) out of it.