Atheos Dialogue: Sin

Want to burn in eternity? Keep sinning.

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If Christianity is true, you're a sinner. You need the sacrifice of Jesus Christ to save you from your sins.

I'm not a sinner.

If Christianity is true, you're right. But the idea of sinning is strange to me. What do you mean by 'sins'?

Sins don't exist. They are just made up rules to control people.

I appreciate your concern. However, I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. How do you define 'sin'?

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Sinning is acting against God's will.

I see that. But I still have questions about sin. Do all religions have a conception of sin like Christianity?

So, if someone doesn't know God's will, they can do whatever they want & it's not a sin?

Got it. But I still have some questions about sin. For instance, if a child does something against God's will, is that a sin?

No one knows God's will.

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Well, children can sin. But if they haven't been taught what's right or wrong, I don't think God will punish them for it.

Does that mean that someone has to know God's will in order to sin?

Bingo. That would be cruel, wouldn't it? So we agree that sin isn't actually real.

Well, a lot of Christians do think that God punishes all sinners. Your position isn't very orthodox.

That makes sense to me. Does that mean that anyone who hasn't been taught right from wrong won't be punished for their sins?

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Good question. We're all sinners, so I guess not.

If you don't need to know God's will to sin, then you just contradicted yourself.

So everyone sins, but God won't punish everyone for sinning? Is that what you're saying?

I agree that we all do things that are wrong, but could people have different ideas about what's wrong, & what sin means?

That's a more Orthodox answer & it reflects how the Judeo-Christian God is punitive & cruel.

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Well, no. Everyone has to accept Jesus as their Savior to be saved, so I guess God will punish everyone who sins.

Hmm. If you have kids, would you punish them for doing something they didn't know was wrong?

I recently heard about a mother who hit her newborn for crying. She thought crying was a sin because it's selfish. Do you agree with that?

Even little babies? That's just cruel.

You just contradicted yourself.

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Well, if it were really serious, maybe. But if it was something minor, I probably wouldn't.

Neither would I. We seem to agree on a lot of things. But I have another question: Do you think everyone believes in sin?

Do you think the same holds for God?

Then you're more moral than your God.

Any truly ethical person wouldn't punish a child for doing something they didn't know was wrong.

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Hmm. Maybe. I guess God wouldn't have to punish people who don't know any better for minor sins.

That leads me to another question I have about sin. Is sin universal? Or might some people think something is a sin & others don't?

I agree. So, how do we distinguish between serious & minor sins?

Since when does God distinguish between minor & more serious sins?

That's what I think, but the Bible is replete with God doing just that.

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God has detailed what a sin is & isn't in scripture.

Sure. But why do you believe it?

Hmm. That's interesting. I know some religious people who believe drinking coffee is a sin. Do you think that's a sin?

But there are lots of sins in the Bible that you commit, aren't there?

I don't know any Christians who follow all of the commandments in the Bible.

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It all comes down to the Bible, friend.

Then it can't be a sin, can it?

Are you saying Mormons are wrong?

Then why do you think people believe it's a sin?

Does everyone who reads the Bible accurately determine what is a sin & what is not a sin?

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Well, they must be mistaken.

But they are firmly convinced it's a sin. Is it possible that it isn't entirely clear what is & isn't a sin?

That's possible. But could it also be that sins are just, kind of, made up?

That's pretty arrogant of you to think you know God's will.

Maybe they think you're mistaken?

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I think it's very clear what a sin is. Whatever scripture says is a sin is a sin.

Actually, my very point is that what is & what isn't a sin is not clear at all.

Are you sure about that? Because the Bible says lots of things are sins & you probably commit them?

If I recall correctly, the Bible says women shouldn't talk in church. Do you think that is a sin?

The Bible doesn't address stem cell research, but many religious people think it's a sin. If that's not in the Bible, is it a sin?

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I think it's a sin.

So, something doesn't have to be in the Bible to be a sin?

If something isn't described as against God's will in the Bible, how do you know it's a sin?

Then either you're wrong or the Bible is wrong, since you just said the Bible tells you what is & what isn't a sin.

If it's not in the Bible, then it can't be based on what you said earlier.

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I guess that's true.

If that's true, then what good is the Bible?

If that's the case, doesn't that mean people can just invent sins?

Also, doesn't the Bible say that women should cover their heads when they are in church? So, is it a sin if they don't?

You just contradicted yourself.

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Well, I don't think that's a sin.

Are you calling the Bible into question?

Hmm. Not everything the Bible says is a sin, & not everything that is a sin is in the Bible. That's confusing.

But that is clearly denoted as a sin in the Bible. You're not making any sense.

Again, we agree. But that also means one may not rely exclusively on the Bible for determining what's a sin. Is that right?

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I guess it could be, but I still think you just have to follow God's will.

If God's will isn't in the Bible, then how can you know God's will?

I'm sure everyone would follow God's will if they knew what it is, but no one does, do they?

I understand, but it seems like it would be hard to follow if you don't know what it is or if people disagree about what it is.

I can understand the desire to follow God, but isn't it hard to know what God's will is?

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I guess people do disagree about it. That's why there are lots of religions.

And if there are lots of religions, doesn't that mean no one can know God's will?

There are a lot of religions. Is it possible that maybe each of them kind of comes up with their own understanding of sin?

If people disagree about it, doesn't that suggest God has a problem communicating His will?

If people disagree about what's a sin, then doesn't that mean sins don't really come from a God?

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Well, I still think there are sins.

This is where our understanding differs. I think people can do bad things, but those aren't necessarily sins, are they?

And you would be wrong.

I agree that people can do things that are wrong. But that's not the same as sinning, is it?

But you just indicated that not everyone agrees what sins are. So, how can they really exist if people don't agree on what they are?

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Hmm. Do you have an example to help me understand why this could be the case?

Texting whilst driving is illegal in some areas, but it's not a sin. And some religions think eating pork is a sin, but it's not illegal.

Sure. Interracial marriage used to be illegal; does that mean it used to be a sin?

Only religious people believe in sins. Nonreligious people just call that immoral or unethical behavior.

Well, speeding is illegal, but it isn't really a sin. And some religions think driving on the Sabbath is a sin, but it's not illegal.

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Hmm. I guess that's true.

So, does that mean that sins aren't, well, real?

Yep, it is. And the only conclusion that remains is that sins are make believe.

And if that's true, what other aspects of religion are pretend?

What does that tell us about sin? Maybe that sins are relative to religions & made up?

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Huh?! Well, maybe.

No maybes. Definitely.

In that case, I'm not sure what it means to be a sinner.

I told you from the beginning, I'm sinless, just like Christ.

Then I guess people who don't believe in sin can be just fine without Jesus' sacrifice.