Atheos It's Good for Me, Part 2

Can you spot the move from 'My faith/belief is true,' to 'My faith/belief benefits me'?

Select an ideal response for:

It is an escape from the alternative, which is a harsher reality.

Isn't there something to be said for living in the real world?

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Can you imagine a reality more harsh than one of religious oppression, control & violence?

Is it better to engage the truth than to try to escape it?

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My belief allows me to be part of my wonderful religious community.

I guess I wouldn't know about your wonderful community, since I don't blindly toe the ideological line prescribed by its dogma.

Isn't that a claim about the consequences of a professed belief as opposed to the truth of the belief?

I'm not sure I understand what that has to do with the truth of your beliefs.

Book clubs also provide a sense of community too, right?

I'm glad you have such a positive community, but I'm afraid it's all based on misinformation.

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My belief in God has given me strength when I was weak.

How do you know strength came to you from a supernatural source, as opposed to just believing it did?

That sounds like a statement about the effects of belief, not about the truth of belief.

So, theistic athletes should perform better than atheistic ones, right?

Clearly you weren't actually weak if you found that strength in yourself, though, right?

You know, I actually felt stronger once I shed my faith & left it behind me. What does that say?

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My belief in God helps me make better art.

There are plenty of nonreligious artists who make some pretty spectacular works.

So do many drugs, right?

Well, don't quit your day job.

How, exactly?

How have you tested this hypothesis? Have you tried making art without a God belief to see if it improves?

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My belief in God keeps me safe.

I see no possible way you could know that to be true.

If you were to suffer a serious accident, would you discard your God belief outright?

If you're wrong, isn't having that false sense of security actually dangerous?

Are you sure that's not the police?

Wait; is it God who keeps you safe, or your belief in God?

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My cousin stopped believing in God & she became a criminal.

My brother came to believe in God & he became a criminal. Do you deny that?

If she believed in God again, would she never partake in illegal activities?

Correlation doesn't dictate causation, does that make sense?

What makes you sure the two are related? Don’t many criminals still believe in God?

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My faith gives me something to do with my time.

That's the kind of answer a drug addict would give. Are you aware of this unhealthy addiction that you have?

Does that mean you're not particularly committed to the truth of your faith belief?

There are many other things to do than pretend to know something you don't know. Play time is over.

There are many things one can do with one's time, & not all are equally productive. Isn't the important consideration whether or not one's faith is true?

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My faith helps me repress my immoral urges.

How would you explain people who don't use faith but still lead moral lives?

Your conscience should be able to repress your immoral urges alone, don't you think?

Let them loose! So long as they're supportive of human flourishing, they'll set you free!

Isn't that a statement about your belief itself & not about the truth of your belief?

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My faith makes me more grateful for what I have. Prayer helps me to recognize that.

Can we talk a bit about how you think prayer helps you recognize this?

If you only appreciate what you've got because you think a God gave it to you, can you really call your appreciation genuine?

Meditation does that & that's all you are doing: thinking things through & clearing your mind.

If there were no God, would you still appreciate what you have?

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My faith makes my life better.

One more drink might make an alcoholic's life better in the short term, but in the long run he's better off quitting.

Prentending to know things that you don't know makes your life better?

People whose faith beliefs contradict your own make the same claim. Does that cause you to reconsider whether or not your faith is true?

What if I told you your life would actually be better if you abandoned your faith?

So does medicine. But in what way is your belief actually true?

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My faith makes my life easier.

Are you really interested in living an easy life if it's based on falsehoods? Isn't truth important to you?

Everyone struggles. Suffer with us.

So does never dealing with anything difficult.

So does direct deposit. But how does an easier life say anything about the truth of your beliefs?

Is it because faith protects you from doing things that are both difficult & important?

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My faith is an ancient element of my culture & should be preserved.

Aren't ancient beliefs likely to be in even more need of re-examination?

Your faith will be supplanted, just as were earlier traditions.

Rightly so, in a museum of the strange & twisted.

The same could be said of pagan & polytheistic traditions, among others. How is your religion unique in that way?

Should every ancient element of a culture be preserved? What about slavery?

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My kids prove that God exists.

Haven’t you ever taken a biology course or read a book on biology? Do you not understand human reproduction?

What about your children gives you reason to believe a God exists?

How would you explain childless adults that also believe in the same God?

Kids are more likely to be the spawn of Satan than God.

Kids are amazing, but what makes them so isn't a God.

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My religion benefits my community.

Do you expect members of your community who don't belong to your religion think it's as mutually beneficial as you think it is?

Your religion harms my community.

Sometimes it may, but doesn't it more often than not poison it?

What benefits does it provide that couldn’t be equally well provided by a secular alternative?

No, it doesn't.

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My spouse is [insert faith] & it makes them feel better.

What does how [their faith] makes them feel have to do with the truth of that tradition?

Then I would suggest finding why they need religion to feel better. What is missing in your relationship?

Shouldn't you be able to make them feel better on your own? What kind of person are you?

Do they believe because it's true or because it makes one feel better?

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Pretending to believe in God is a great way to climb the social ladder.

Uh, yeah, 'Leaving for Crazy Town! When's the bus?'

How did you make this determination?

So you're pretending to believe in God, but don't actually believe?

Yes, I'm pretending to know something I can't know through the act of pretending.

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Religion gives a sense of purpose. My life was going nowhere until I found God.

I'd say your purpose is whatever you set out to do. You create your own purpose; it's not dictated by a deity.

Your life was going just fine; you're just repeating what the religious authorities told you about how you're doing.

Isn't a life devoted to an imaginary reality essentially the very definition of 'going nowhere?'

Does it really make sense to accept something as true simply because it’s useful or convenient?

Can one have a sense of purpose based upon a fiction?

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Religion is good for society.

Religion is terrible for society. Just check any history book.

I'm not sure that's relevant. I'm wondering how you've determined that your God exists.

Is there anything religion does for society that couldn't be achieved by secular means?

Isn't religion just a diabolical device for hypnotizing the masses?

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Religion provides needed hope for the impoverished.

Don't you mean that it offers them genuinely false hope?

So, religion is taking advantage of poor people?

Yes, that's quite possibly correct. But does hope alone make every belief true?

If that's true, then isn't it cruel to bestow genuinely false hope on these people who clearly need real help?

How so?

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Society would collapse without religion.

Perhaps a utopian world order could arise based on the value of human flourishing.

What is your definition of 'collapse'?

Doesn't society collapse with religion?

What would the residents of Sweden, Norway, Denmark & Finland have to say about that?

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Society would fall apart without religion.

Which society would fall apart?

What about Scandinavia, or any of the numerous other flourishing secular states & communities around the world?

Not if we replace religion with reason & rationality, right?

No, it wouldn’t. It would thrive.

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Some people believe in God so that they can travel. My friend Sam, for example, went to a Christian college in France.

God beliefs actually make travel much more dangerous. Aren't most violent terrorists motivated by religious belief?

If an actor subscribed to Scientology to further his career, would that make Xenu real?

If traveling were Sam's only agenda, then it's probably not really belief.

Should decisions about what's true be based on material benefits?

Europe would welcome you more readily if you were atheistic. Exchange student programs are offered to all people.

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We need religion because it keeps the lower classes in line. If they think they’re getting a reward in the afterlife, they won’t revolt.

Don't you think it's despicable to care so little about the well-being of the less fortunate?

Fine, but why not teach them something else? Does it have to be a belief in a God?

Are you acknowledging that religious claims are false?

You do realize that this makes you sound like an elitist pig, right?

That sounds like an admission that you don’t really care whether religious claims correspond to reality.

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Wherever I go I can find a community of like-minded people.

Isn't this true for enthusiasts of many interests & activities, including those who don’t subscribe to belief in the supernatural?

Couldn't a misogynist, or a racist, or a homophobe say the same thing?

So can I, what's your point?

The number of people who participate in a delusion doesn't increase its likelihood of being true.

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Why take away a faith belief that makes someone happy?

Does lying to onesself make one happy?

Why should I have to deal with other people's stupidity?

It isn't the belief that makes them happy; it's the false sense of understanding. Replace that with reason & happiness will remain.

Is the world really so bad that a person can't be happy without holding unjustified beliefs?

Which is more important, to know the truth or to be happy?

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Without God I wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning.

How would you explain all the atheists who climb out of bed without faith?

You can't even stand up without the help of an omnipotent entity? That doesn't seem like a problem to you?

Is it possible that your dependence on God is a learned trait rather than an inherent one?

The existential experience & the jaw-dropping universe we live in is reason enough to tackle each day head on!

Have you tried?

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You must be lonely without religious friends.

No, my atheist friends are awesome. We sit around & talk about how stupid believers are.

Yes. I get lonely if my friends don’t pretend to know things they don’t know.

My friends span the entire spectrum from belief to non-belief. Is your professed belief rooted in loneliness or do you believe the claims in your faith tradition are true?

Thank you, but no. Even if I were, how would that affect the truth of my beliefs?